What has been the biggest challenge to be at the top of your game during this post-pandemic landscape?

First of all, it’s an incredible time. Finally, the world is back to being open. People are travelling again and coming back to Singapore, coming to our city. So one challenge, of course, is adapting to that: the fact that the borders are now open, and embracing that again, people are coming from all around the world. [The World’s 50 Best Bars body] is giving people a starting point to visit a selection of bars and restaurants in our city, and a lot of tourists also identify hidden spots or recommendations from locals and all that. [We’ve been] reorienting our team to welcome everyone again, and that’s been really, really exciting. 

On the challenge front, of course, we wish we had more team members in Singapore to be able to welcome everyone. Staffing is always an issue everywhere, but I think [it’s] something that we are able to overcome, because everybody’s just really, really excited to be back. I’m really looking forward to tonight, to see everyone from around the world here to celebrate the bar community.

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Jigger and Pony is regarded as a leader in the Asian bar industry, and certainly, as one of the best bars in the world. What sorts of pressure and expectations does that put on you? How do you deliver on such expectations to Asia, and the world?

Let’s not look at it as pressure. We just feel very, very fortunate to be in a city where the bar community is supportive, where every bar and every new opening— and there are a lot of new openings in Singapore constantly— always tries to do something different, and we support one another. We are competitive in a way that we want to do something that no one has done yet, and maybe even do it even better, but it’s not about putting each other down. I think that has really helped put Singapore on the map, and people notice like, Hey, something exciting is brewing in Singapore, we need to come down and we need to check it out and experience it for ourselves.

For us, you know, we are not focused on rankings or anything like that. We’re very, very grateful that we are in it but the focus has always been: if we want to work on the next menu, how can we make the next menu even more interesting and engaging for our consumers, for our community? Of course, the other element that’s super important is our consumers. We bars are nothing without them, right? The fact that they are open-minded, that they’re coming here and they’re looking for quality, they’re looking for creativity, is really important for us. It really pushes us to say, Let’s deliver something that’s really good and special because it’s going to be worth it and it’s going to be appreciated.

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You opened Jigger and Pony 11 years ago. What would you say has been the key to your longevity?

We have this mantra. My business partner and our beverage director, he’s Japanese and his name is Aki Eguchi. So one of the Japanese business mantras that he taught us was the word Kaizen, which means 1 per cent improvement a day. I think Toyota was the one that pioneered it. We thought, That’s exactly right. When we started 11 years ago, you wouldn’t proclaim, Oh, we are the best in whatever. Many of us, myself included, we’re not even from the industry. But the mantra is just: How can we get 1 per cent better each day? Let’s take a look at the bar. Let’s take a look at our service. Let’s take a look at our menu. And I guess after 11 years, that’s cumulative, the improvements we have made. 

Just being open to ideas is important too. Even though we’ve been around for 11 years and have found some success, we don’t want to lock the brand, lock the bar, and not change anything else, and then just do the same thing every year. If anything, it’s the other way around. It motivates us to take more risks and launch things like new menus, new drinks that we have not attempted before, and new ingredients. So that’s been our approach.

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What are the new preferences that you have observed with consumers today with regard to their orders or the kinds of experiences that they want to have?

I think the trend that has been happening in the last several years is just more open-mindedness. Consumers are not fixated on "Oh, this is how my cocktail is supposed to be served, this is the wrong glass", or "Why is my Margarita not done that way?" and things like that. Consumers now are open and excited to try, say, What is your take on a particular drink? If it is a riff on a classic or if it is something that is completely innovative and different, why did you approach it that way? So it’s been really liberating in a way for us bars and our bartenders and chefs to really be confident in presenting ourselves. If you want to follow the template or the structure of a classic cocktail, you can— but if you want to break free, we absolutely have the license to do so. And our customers are actually really excited about that. So I think that’s been the trend and I think we’ll continue to go that way.

Can you give an example of one of those drinks that sort of breaks the mould?

We have a cocktail at Jigger and Pony called Ugly Tomatoes. We source tomatoes from the Genting Highlands, which is about two-hour drive, three-hour drive from Singapore. These tomatoes are usually rejected by supermarket clients in Malaysia because they are not the right shape or the right colour. So we bring them in and use them in the cocktails, and we don’t adjust the colour, for example, or the sweetness of the tomatoes. As a result, there will be some variances in the colour and texture of the drink, but we wanted to show customers that if you want to take the right steps towards how we approach products and how we buy products, we should be open to products that perhaps don’t have the perfect shape or colour. We serve it in a glass that’s a little bit misshapen, just to fit in this framework that not everything that is beautiful needs to be perfect. That drink has really taken off.

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Real estate can be a challenge. How much of a factor is rent when you consider a new location or when you consider expansion?

I think food and beverage all around the world is notorious for being challenging, right? You always have very expensive rent in many places around the world. You always have costly salaries and staff, and a shortage of staff. Singapore is no different. Rent is a business cost— it is a challenge. But having said that, this city has a lot of interesting spaces. I think more important than “How much am I paying for rent?”, is “What kind of space am I getting, and what can I do with that space?”. Whenever we open a bar or a restaurant, that’s always the thing that we think about. Right now we are in the Raffles Hotel with all this heritage, and it’s just absolutely incredible. Jigger and Pony is inside Amara Hotel, which is a business hotel right in the middle of Tanjong Pagar, with all the restaurants and bars. Some of our other bars are in shophouses, and that presents its own unique challenge and its own unique charm. So the rent, of course, depends on the performance of the business. If the bar is busy, then hopefully we can keep that manageable. If it’s not, then of course, it can be quite a challenge. But I think that goes for many places around the world, not just Singapore.

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Can you talk about the movement towards 0 per cent ABV or non-alcoholic cocktails? It’s appearing more and more in various bars around the world as well. How much do you think that is going to stay? And for the case of Jigger and Pony, how does that contribute to your revenue?

I would say the trend goes beyond just low ABV and no ABV. The trend is that people like to enjoy bars, and they want to have choices. So the way we think about it is, Look, remember our purpose statement. It doesn’t say that you must have high-proof alcohol. As long as you’re comfortable, you make friends, and you share happiness, you’re welcome. So we take pride in all of our beverages, whether they contain alcohol or not. Our bartenders, they’ve been discussing this shift. What we realised was at first, when we were asked to make non-alcoholic cocktails, it almost felt like a handicap somehow. But when you think about it, maybe it’s liberating. We don’t have to create a drink that must contain an intoxicant. It’s about the flavours, and whether or not it’s alcoholic, people can appreciate the craftsmanship, the detail, and the quality. So we think that it’s not just whether we have non-alcoholic or alcoholic, it’s about giving consumers choices that allow them to enjoy our product so much more. And I think if we do that, it’s good for business.

What percentage of your customers would you say are ABV vs non-ABV drinkers?

We don’t believe our guests are actually one or the other. Actually, they are “substituters”, as I was last night: I knew that this morning, I had the Meet the Bartenders session. So I made sure that for every couple of drinks, I would choose a non-alcoholic beer or a non-alcoholic wine, a non-alcoholic cocktail, just to enjoy my night more. In terms of percentage per drink, well, I don’t have that number, I’m guessing it is not the majority, it’s probably below 20 per cent. But we still want to offer [non-ABV drinks] because they contribute to the guests’s enjoyment.

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On the 17th of October, over 1000 luminaries behind the world’s greatest bars gathered in Singapore for the awarding of The World’s 50 Best Bars 2023. That morning, hours before the big reveal, select media outlets were invited to an exclusive Meet the Bartenders roundtable interview session—the very first of its kind. Tatler Philippines was granted the unique and valuable opportunity to pick the brains of these industry leaders as the only Philippine publication in attendance.

Tatler Philippines travelled to Singapore with the Singapore Tourism Board. To learn more, check out @visit_singapore on Instagram, #visitsingapore  #passionmadepossible