In Conversation: Josh Boutwood and Jordy Navarra on the evolution of Philippine dining

JN: It’s a constant thought, right? We always sort of plan to go somewhere. We have such a rich and diverse scene here in Manila. I think the dining scene now is at this point of looking at each other and sort of [gaining inspiration].

JB: I don’t want to blow your trumpet, but I think all of us in that same age group who opened restaurants together kind of applaud what you were doing for all of us. Yet, also creates an identity around it. I think much of the identity has actually been spearheaded by you, through your restaurant and your teams.

JN: Aww, thank you, Josh. Seriously, I feel the same way with you. I was still working overseas when you were already in Boracay running a restaurant. [It was then] that you were already pushing the same perspective, a refined approach in a setting that people didn’t expect. And you’re still doing the same thing, 16 years later, principle-wise, but more refined, studied.

JB: Well, look at us.

JN: Going back to the question, where are we going? Back in the day, you would not even think about opening for lunch because it was never worth it.

JB: I was closed two days a week, just to compress all the guests into a certain window so we could have the best ingredients come in, utilise them in four days, and then close the other three days. Because we knew that we couldn’t fill those seats.

JN: It’s a commitment to quality.

JB: But that luxury is now gone, and we’ve had to actually create a prep kitchen now, where we have to be open six days a week. We have to do three services on the weekends, ‘cause otherwise, the waitlist would just be too long. I’m so grateful and honoured to be in this position.

Read also: Haute Spots: Chef Jordy Navarra of Toyo Eatery on what makes Manila so special

JB: I’m excited to see where our next generation is going. The generation before us laid out a path to follow. Now our responsibility is to set a path for those coming out of culinary school or for my kids at their age, so they can continue what we’re building and then build upon it.

JN: I agree. I think you make a very good point that we can only stand where others stood before us.

JB: Beautiful.

JN: Margarita [Forés], then Chef Tony Boy. They’ve been there pushing a perspective, a new take on dining and we saw that growing up. Now, the attention is on us.

JB: Are you ever worried about so much attention on you?

JN: Always! I have more white hair now.

JB: Join the club. You know, my hair has gotten shorter and shorter as I’ve gotten older, so I can hide my white hair.

JN: Ironically, it’s also a privilege that we get to do what we want to do. Pressure is part of that. But we’re lucky that people are interested in whatever we’re doing now.

JB: There are a lot of people who would want to be in our shoes and [I’m] always grateful.

Read also: Single Ingredient at Helm is chef Josh Boutwood’s strongest tasting menu to date

JN: What’s your process like?

JB: I always find myself looking for ingredients first. I’m very fortunate to have a thematic concept, so I’m always within a box of what I can think about and that restraint helps me be creative without going overboard.

JN: That’s great. Like an artist choosing the colours first.

JB: Exactly. You know the size of the canvas, what you can fit on it, then let your imagination take over. But ultimately, I think the secret for us is just finding that balance of flavour in everything, in terms of flavour, acidity, umami, sweetness and cohesiveness, so it fits within the menu we’re trying to express to our dining guests.

JN: When I am asked what my favourite dish is, I always say, “I don’t see it as just dishes”. [A menu] is a collection of dishes and each one supports the others. 

JB: I’ve also never chosen favourites from my menus. I jokingly say it’s like choosing a favourite child. You secretly have one, but you don’t publicly announce it. I’m very scared of keeping anything sentimental. That way, I don’t inherit anything from the previous menu into the new one, and nobody actually knows what I’m going to do next.

JN: It’s a key thing, though, like you’re not loyal to yourself, you’re loyal to the process.

JB: Yeah. I think if anyone goes to Helm, they’ll still recognise me as the cook; there’s a personality in the food. They never know what I’ll be doing next, but my personality remains the same. No one knows my next move. I think that’s what makes it exciting for my dining customers. They’re always excited to see, after four months of one theme, what the next one is like.

JN: The cool thing about Filipino food is it’s very diverse, very regionally different. I have a tendency to look at food in a very simplistic way. Toyo is basically that approach, rehashed over and over again. Ten years on, I feel more humble now because I am less ignorant about what we had. The more you learn, the less ignorant you become; not more knowledgeable, but rather, you just see things more clearly. 

JB: That’s why I love eating at your restaurant, because I’m able to learn something new every time I go. 

JN: What we learn, we try to share through our menu. We see our role as a bridge to get what we find out to the diner who comes. The palate of Filipinos also changes. With the dining scene as rich and diverse as it is now, many foreign influences have also come and gone over time. And it [reflects] on what Filipinos eat today. What does a dining experience in Manila mean now? It means many things. Like you can experience Chinese food, Filipino-Chinese food, your food. Top chefs from Europe bring their approach as well. All these form the basis for what the dining public understands. Now we see the fruits of the different approaches many chefs take, and it just adds to the diversity.

JB: I think we have created a very vibrant city in our industry. There is always going to be a restaurant that suits whatever one is craving.

JN: We said earlier that we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. We take the same approach. Day-to-day at the restaurant, you want to leave it a bit better than how you found it. If one day I leave the dining scene, I hope it’s better than the one that came before. Not that what I got wasn’t as good, but it’s the natural progression of things, where all things evolve, and you have to constantly update, constantly learn and get better for things to survive. 

JB: If I were to stop cooking in the future, my legacy would be the people who have come through our doors, my team who have spent countless hours working with me and hopefully learning at the same time. That they learned enough for their wings to completely unravel and fly to heights I could never reach.

Some of them have already opened restaurants, and I could not be happier to think that perhaps I was able to impart some knowledge that set them on their goal and helped them start their journey. That would be my final legacy. At the end of the day, our investment is in people and how they will transform our industry for the better. 

JN: The beautiful thing about our dining scene is that everything started organically. And Tatler was one of the publications that celebrated restaurant excellence.

JB: With Tatler being the original, I still regard it as the most important. The dedication, work, and effort they put into the Dining Guide are unparalleled. The amount that they have done for the young generation in this country is just incredible.

JN: You see, it’s a mark of prestige in different establishments all over the Philippines, not just Manila.

JB: I don’t think any of us would be here where we are today without them, you know, pushing us and making us grind every year to make those lists. That’s 25 years. I was cooking 25 years ago, but I wasn’t back home yet.  

JN: Well, we can technically say we come from a generation through whom you saw Tatler from afar.

JB: There you go. Long live Tatler!

JN: Yeah. This Year 25!

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